1911.COM : General 1911 Discussion : General 1911 Discussion : amscore

Posted: Apr 19th 2010, 05:07 PM

at my local gun shop they have a really nice looking (and cheap) amscore 1911 for around $465 and since this IS 1911.COM i thought that i couldnt ask a better more knowledgeable group of guys.....all comments are appreciated!!

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Posted: Apr 19th 2010, 06:35 PM

dont know a thing about it. never even heard of it and couldnt find one on gunbroker either. sorry wish i could help you out but cant and am interested to see what other people say.

edit: its armscor and thats why i had a problem lol but you can find it cheaper http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=165509340i dont know what model the one your looking at is though.

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Posted: Apr 19th 2010, 08:02 PM

I suspect you are talking about an Armscor gun. They are made in the Philippines, and imported into the States under a number of different brand names. Rock Island for instance. They are made to mil spec and there is nothing fundamentally wrong with them. But the reason that they are so inexpensive is that there is absolutely no hand fitting of the parts. The parts are mass produced and assembled the way they come off the line. So you might get a very good gun. Or you might get one that needs some tweaking before it will shoot reliably. One gun will have a good slide. The next will be rough and tight. One will have a decent trigger. The next will be hard and rough. One will feed flawlessly. The next will have feed problems.

Like I said, It's not a fundamental quality problem. Today, parts are cranked out on high speed machinery, and there is always some variation from one part to the next. Par for the course. It's just that the 1911 design is finicky. It's very sensitive to the proper fit of the parts. Remember that it was designed in a day when the guns were pretty much hand made by master gunsmiths. But when you slap one together with mass produced parts, its a crap shoot what you'll get. More modern guns today are designed to be mass produced. Not the 1911. That's a big part of what you pay for in a higher end 1911. You pay for someone to hand fit the parts.

Again, nothing fundamentally wrong with an Armscor. Just be aware that it may take some tweaking or adjusting. If you are looking for a gun that will be 100% out of the box, Armscor isn't the answer. But then you may just get a good one. And if you don't, the adjustments necessary to make it right may be minor. I bought a Springfield mil spec 1911-A1. Worked fine out of the box, but it had the worst trigger of any gun I've ever owned. Very long, gritty, 10 lb pull. Reminded me of that old Mosen Nagent I used to own. Awful. I found that the full cock notch on the hammer was cut too deep. $50 for a Wilson Combat hammer and sear, and 30 minutes work fitting them to the gun, and it was a shooting machine. And since that was a Commander style hammer, another $25 let me install a beaver tail safety. Perfect.

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Posted: Apr 20th 2010, 06:04 AM

sorry for the typo...i was about to be late for work....

the weapon looked to be decent but sometimes you never know.
i liked the look but then again its a 1911 wadda you expect, so basically my new question is; if its a junker and i have to replace alot of parts, would it be worth the price still, or should i just go with a quality mid-high end 1911 like a kimber?

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Posted: Apr 20th 2010, 08:13 AM

Hard to say.

I was on the hunt for a decent 1911 for several months. I bought a Taurus. I didn't know much about 1911's then, and I was expecting a good gun out of the box. What I got was a $600 door stop. I sold it, and moved up to a premium gun..the STI Ranger II. It functioned perfectly, but it sure as hell didn't shoot up to the level of its price tag. That and I absolutely learned to hate the recoil system. It had a two stage recoil spring, which was supposed to reduce recoil. But it was complicated, and didn't use a standard barrel busing. It required special made parts to field strip and it was a bitch to get back together. So I sold it and went on the hunt again. A buddy of mine suggested that given my recent training in 1911's that I just buy one of the cheap guns and fix it up myself. So I bought the Springfield mil spec (made in Brazil). Like I said $80 in parts and a little work made it the best 1911 I've ever fired. Puts the far more expensive STI to shame. It has quickly risen to be my favorite piece.

So basically, you can spend more money, and still end up with a bad gun. More money on the front end doesn't guarantee anything, but I'd say it does improve the odds. I'll also grant that you are likely to get a better gun if you stick with something American made. Although that's not a guarantee either.

So, if you don't mind spending some time and money, and you understand the innards of a 1911, I'd buy the cheaper gun and fix it up as I did. That way, when you're done, you know what you're getting. But any parts you buy will very likely need fitting. Like I said, there is no such thing as a 'drop in' 1911 part. I had to modify the Wilson Combat sear to put it in my Springfield. But if you aren't comfortable with that, or don't want to spend the time with it, I'd go with a higher end American made gun. You're more likely to come away happy.

Oh, and another thing to consider. The higher end guns usually have some safety features the mil spec guns don't. The one thing I'd like to see that's missing on my Springfield is a firing pin safety. Standard on the better guns. Without that, it's dicey for use as a defense gun.

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Posted: Apr 20th 2010, 11:08 AM

The now defunkt Charles Daley was also selling Armscor made 1911's under their banner.... I have seen a couple and the only reason I saw them was because someone brought them to me to work on because they couldn't get them to feed consistently. I spent considerable time working on the last one and still had problems, although not to the original extent, and finally I gave up and told the owner to sell it or trade it, but definately NOT to rely up on it as a defensive weapon. The first one I saw just needed some polishing of the feed ramp, extractor tweeking and a good recoil spring. Guy ended up with a good gun for less than $75 above what he paid for it when parts and time were factored in.

RG is dead nuts in his above statements. His advice/commentsare astute and accurate.

-Tac

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Posted: Apr 20th 2010, 02:22 PM

Me personally I'd look for a good new/used Springfield......Now quality control on those have been hit/miss lately I've been hearing.....But they're backed by a Lifetime warranty - Just ship it to them and they'll fix it if you get a not so great one.

One of the posters here just bought a new 'Mil-Spec' 1911.....Had some extraction issues : Springfield practically rebuilt the Pistol and shipped it back No-Charge.

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Posted: Apr 20th 2010, 07:33 PM

I have owned several 1911's and I agree with RG. My first kimber was such a complete POS that I never touched another kimber. following the great advice on this forum I tried another Kimber and it is one of my best so I bought a kimber compact. Evey company will pump out a lemon every now and then. Buy a decent 1911 and spend the extra cash to have her tuned up right.

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Posted: Apr 22nd 2010, 04:58 PM

Brada2, I bout one in march i've fired several hundred rounds through it with no broblem. It jamed only once with a hollow point out of so many rounds.Because it is mass produced the brake in dose take longer. The sight is the only issue i have the rear notch is to wide for the front blade but im used to rifle sight so that maybe me.As far as parts go AR15PRODUCTS.NET is a good place to start & the price cant be beat lest not that i've found yet. Happy hunting & good luck

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Posted: Apr 26th 2010, 12:23 AM

I agree totally with the above mentioned tweeking needed.
I have a Citadel, made by Armscor, and it's true for $429 I had to smooth over a few parts. If I had to have my own personal gunsmith, I would have spent another $200 on labor costs. I had to fix my Metro Arms 1911 also, and do the exact same polishing, exactly.
I have a Springfield GI Hi-Cap also so I have a diverse experience with 1911's. The springer had a t least a 8LB pull, so I had to make some changes. If I had sent it in to a smith, it would have been sent back to me in the same condition it was brought in, because it is to spec.
What I did to the GI was all low tech, but it did require a minimal amount of mechanical aptitude. I changed the mainspring and removed the ILS, only by replacing the spring, cap and cap retaining pin. I stoned the hooks on the hammer, and adjusted the sear spring leaves back a little. You need to have enough spring to keep the sear in the hammer hooks, and enough to reset the trigger. So I got the 8Lbs down to 4.2lbs. I put some paint on the front and rear sight, to improve the sight picture, and it is a good shooter now, more accurate than my 2 other 1911's.
The 2 PINOY pistols (Philippine) have the same trigger pull 4.2LBs, but I had to thoroughly dehorn both the pistols barrels, and feedramps. The extractors were a bit square also, so I had to put a bevel on and polish the extractors on the two. I have been changing parts out on all three guns to make them more ergonomic to my style, such as extended slidestops, extended thumbsafety, and i removed the ambi-safety on one and replaced it with a strong side tactical safety.
These things cost very little, but without a little courage, and experience, you could not make the upgrades. I laugh everytime I see one of these
experts on the un-named major forums we all know , that mentions how he will be bringing his new Kimber or Nighthawk, Or Les Baer to his favorite smith on his way home from the FFL after picking up his purchase.
It reminds me of when I was younger and the rich kids would come around with their new Harley their dad had bought them for their first motorcycle.
I love taking a $400 solid pistol, and making it shoot as good or better than the $1,400 TRP or $2,200 Ed Brown.
So, in closing, buy the Springfield Mil-Spec for $600 and customize it. Use the youtube and forums for examples of what others have done, and when you feel comfortable, buy the Rock Island or the Armscor, and make it a good shooter. You will fell better about yourself and your purchase. You won't feel sick about filing a part on a pistol that cost as much as your plasma screen TV. If you can't make your gun shoot, and you don't feel good about giving $200 to a gunshop to tune your purchase, you won't shoot your gun. It will sit in your safe, and you will get mad everytime you think about the money you wasted on the high end pistol that won't give you the performance you thought you paid for. You WILL sell it, just to get rid of it, and somebody like me will get a bargain, and make it sing for $45 worth of parts.
I will say one qualifying point, I do have tools, and a searjig, so I know the basics of getting the most from my 1911's, but it doesn't cost a lot, and the library has the Jerry K. book, and the internet has all the rest.

Good shooting, and if you have a TRP, or a Nighthawk, or a hot girlfriend that won't do what they should, send them my way. :-)

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