1911.COM : Large Game : Large Game : Hunting Ethics- What do you think?

Posted: Dec 9th 2009, 04:03 AM

This year didn't go like I had planned. I had a special draw Buck Mule Deer tag in an area in western Montana. I was really excited about the tag before the season started and even found a small heard of 5 bucks that had two great deer in it while scouting.

When the season started, my dad came up and we started hunting the area hard trying to find those deer. The first day we were back in the area, I knew we were in for a tough hunt. A logging company had moved into the area after archery season and they were logging right where I had seen the great bucks.
Needless to say I was more than a little upset. We had to move into a different area after not finding any deer tracks at all in the snow where they were working. To make a long story short, all the activity on the public forest had run the deer down onto private property where it was closed to hunting. We hunted hard for 5 days.

On the 5th day, we got up on a ridge in the morning and weren't having much luck finding a buck. We heard several shots below us in a forested area. Later we saw 3 hunters leaving the area from the direction where the shots were fired. We continued to glass the area but didn't find any deer, so we started to head down into the valley as the sun started to go down. About 45 minutes before the end of shooting light we went into the trees and I saw deer moving ahead of us. The buck in the lead was a 3X3 and the second buck was a fork horn (1 1/2 yoa). Neither buck was anywhere close to what I was looking for since I had seen the 185 and 170 class bucks earlier.

Then I noticed the 2X2 was limping badly. When he moved into a small clearing I could see that someone had shot him in the back leg just above the ankle (3 feet away from his vital zone). It was dangling by a few tendons and the skin and he was leaving a blood trail behind him. I looked at my dad and then raised my LTR and put a 165 grn Nosler Accubond into his neck at the base of his skull. He was not what I wanted when I started this hunt but someone else who was a shitty shot made the decision for me. I felt cheated at the time but the steaks we cooked up last week were really good. There is no way I could have lived with myself if I just watched him limp away. I guess it is true what they say, the young ones taste better.

Now I have another year to wait to go after those mosters that fill my dreams.

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Posted: Dec 9th 2009, 11:51 AM

I've been to the range days before the season and watched people sight in their rifles on a paper plate at 50 yards two out of three and their good to go!I'm talking 4 1/2 to 5in. groups at 50 yards. at a friken paper plate no dot in the middle just a paper plate.Some people just don't give a shit. I still hunt public land from time to time and I've lost count of the times I've heard 3-4 shots at deer when you know gotdamn well that someone missed a standing/walking deer then had the friken nerve to shoot 2-3 more times at it running.

Rem,

You did a good thing "putting him down". I've shot two three legged deer in my life and neither were born that way.

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Posted: Dec 9th 2009, 06:55 PM

good on you rem......

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Posted: Dec 9th 2009, 07:46 PM

Rem, I feel you brother. I have been there once myself, and that sucks in a state where you are allowed one deer a year. I think that is GREAT on your part. Atleast you have some steaks to enjoy!!

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Posted: Dec 9th 2009, 08:40 PM

I agree 100% with you actions under those circumstances. Have had similar things happen whitetail hunting. We even called the C/O in our area once because we had a small buck standing out in the middle of a section with part of his insides hanging out. We were told if you put it down you have to tag it. I thought it was kind of a crappy response since I have been told by other officers they do offer salvage tags for situations such as this but it is up to the discretion of the officer. No one was real hip on making a long walk for a deer that no one really wanted to hang a tag on. Long story short a couple of us finally decided we would try and put a sneak on him and put him down. Well we did not have to really sneak because the deer was not really wanting to go anywhere. Friend finished him off and put a tag on it. Other than reaking to high heavens when we gutted him it worked out pretty well. Not a whole lot of meat lost with a gut shot deer.

Also on a side note. Have seen more than one deer running around on 3 legs. They are some pretty tough critters. I know in the community I work in everyone and their brother is chasing a real dandy 14 pointer missing a hind leg.Ithealed up realnice, probably lost it last year or the year before. When you see him on the go you can not even tellit is missing a leg. Like I said before I agree with what you did and you should be commended. If you believe in Karma or any of that stuff youshould have aton of points for gettingyour trophy next year. Good luck.

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Posted: Dec 9th 2009, 10:02 PM

Great job Rem. You had to take him out. Better you have him than the yotes.

A couple of years ago a friend of mine shot an old buck that someone else had shot the lower jaw off. Can you imagine? That deer wouldn't had been even able to drink water. It would have run around and died of thirst.

I love to hunt but nothing deserves to suffer. I have taken bad shots before and I think any hunter that has hunted enough will tell you of bad shots they have taken if they are honest. Things happen in the moment and they don't always go as planned. Another friend of mine gut shot a doe last week. He knew he made a mistake and felt bad.

Don't jump to judgement when this stuff happens. It happens. It sucks when it happens but it does. We all just have to learn from each mistake and strive to do better. Not everyone has the same skill level in the woods unfortunately.

It is better to let a buck of a life time walk then wound it and have the yotes get it. It takes discipline to not shoot when you want to. It takes discipline when you have been hunting hard for days and a less than mediocre buck shows himself.

I am glad you got that buck Rem. He was lucky to come in front of you and if you believe things happen for a reason, you will be rewarded one day for taking him and doing the right thing.

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Posted: Dec 10th 2009, 02:45 AM

Yep, You did the right thing for sure, I'm about to go friday and try it again, hunting new place, still learning it. A few years ago, I shot a smaller than wanted deer, some idiot had shot it in the rump, had him in a bad way so I took him. Once joined a hunting club, they let a few "undesirables". They were known for shooting at anything, no matter how horrible the shot. The next season I was scouting, found three deer remains left for whatever redneck reason, SUCH A WASTE, and I'm talking about the hunters, they are a waste of human skin.

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Posted: Dec 10th 2009, 05:42 AM

Splat,

I agree 100% that sometimes the unforeseen happens. Sometimes there is a branch in the way that you didn't see or the deer standing in the shadows may not be at the angle you thought he was, etc. I don't judge those shots at all. It happens. I shot a deer in the front leg 7 or 8 years ago because I hit a small branch that I didn't see covering the vitals. I also followed that deer up and finished the job.

What I do call bullshit on is the guy who pulls his Ought-6 out of the closet, throws a bore sighter in the end of it, aims the red laser at the bird feeder in the back yard, and calls it good because the crosshairs and the dot are both on the bird feeder. I have also seen people at the range who only come out one day a year and put three rounds in a 3 inch target at 25 yards (the closest board on the rifle range) and call it good. That means they will only be able to hold a 12 inch group at 100 yards and those same people will shoot 500 or 600 yards at elk.

Some of them don't even know what caliber their rifle is. I have been in the gun store when someone has come in and had to go back out to his truck to see what caliber is written on the barrel.

As a firearms instructor, I know that I could take a lot of those people, put them through an 8 hour course, and they could be making good hits at 200 yards from field positions. They just don't care enough for the animal they are pursuing to bring their shooting up to a decent level. I have enough respect for the animals I am after to put in the range time and make a good shot when the time comes.

Thanks for all the responses guys. Hopefully people who come to this sight will see the resposes and think about it for a little while.

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Posted: Dec 10th 2009, 09:56 PM

I feel ya Rem. I have hunted with undesirables too. Just playing devils advocate a bit.

The world is full of idiots. I see them everyday. It is a great responsibility. When ya pull that trigger, you can't take it back.

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Posted: Dec 15th 2009, 09:34 PM

You're a good man Rem! I have a heart too.

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Posted: Dec 15th 2009, 11:42 PM

Rem, you got it! I was in wal mart, a guy was trying to buy a rifle from a sale paper. The sale paper said this model in .270 or 30-06. This moron was arguing with the poor clerk that the rifle shoot both calibers in the same gun, a line of people were waiting and trying to tell this goofball there was no way it would do that. A lot of hunters were shaking thier heads over that one!

I had to chime in and tell him, he may get by with one shot of the 30-06 in a .270 but that would be about it before the big boom! and the 30-06 caliber would shoot a .270 but would not be worth a crap and all over the paper if it was on it at all. He still argued and walked out pissed off. I'm glad he left without a gun myself.

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Posted: Dec 16th 2009, 07:53 PM

Unfortunately, there are allot of people in the woods just like him

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Posted: Dec 23rd 2009, 06:39 AM

Good to go, Rem! Tell ya what, since I'm still a SD resident by virtue of my tribal enrollment, next time you decide to take a stab at it I can probably get you a trip to Dakota if you don't mind hunting with an Ol' Jarhead. Close as you are, it'll only cost you gas money. If you're interested, give me a shout and I'll start setting it up for next Fall. Being a Sioux Indian from that way, it's free for me. Hell, we set it up right, you might be able to pack your scattergun and see about a couple (dozen) pheasants while we're out there!

Trickywoo, has this "hunter" even seen the difference between the .270 and .30-06 rounds? It's a self-explanatory thing!

But, then again, you can't use common sense on some guys. If I were you, I'da snapped off a cameraphone pic of this guy so we'd know who to give a wide berth to next time he's in public!

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Posted: Dec 23rd 2009, 12:00 PM

yes, we tried to show him and drive the point home, but to be honest, this guy just left the lights on and no one home, sandwich shy of a picnic.

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Posted: Feb 9th 2010, 01:06 AM

Took a spike buck for the same reason as OP. A black powder guy shot and thought he hit but wasn't sure. Hunted for the deer for a couple of hours then went home. Right after he left this little deer jumps the fence and hobble right straight to my stand. I didn't want to shoot because he was so small but then I saw the left hind leg was hanging on by a thread, his ball or bullet had taken out the knee and then the deer just lay down till he was done tramping around in the woods.

Multiple calibers in a gun are confusing to a lot of people. I just had a 3 day internet discussion with a guy who thought you should be able to shoot a 327 magnum in a 357 magnum. I finally convinced him it was a bad idea but I'm still not sure he understands English very well. He just can't get it throuhg his head that the 327 rim is smaller than the chamber in the revolver and the bullet is ..312 not .327 and will not be stabilized in a .357 bore even if he was unlucky enough to get it to fire. He will have to have the gun in his hands and try to slip a 327 mag into the 357. Hopefully that will convince him but I'm not really sure.

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Posted: Feb 13th 2010, 04:47 AM

It's as I suspected, Wal-Mart can make a soccer mom into a Green Beret given enough time listening to the gathering of boneheads and pseudo-firearms experts. This may sound sacreligious, but I'm starting to think Wally World should pull their firearms displays and use the placard system. That way, someone whom knows what they're doing knows what to find and ask for. I know, I know, that's not the American Way. Perhaps it should be though, I don't see many non-hackers at Mitch's. When the occasional Stup-pidgeon shows up, the rest of us gently dissuade said from there and recommend Dick's Sporting Goods. If my math is right, there's a whole tree full of those bananas hanging out at the Barnes Crossing Mall now waiting to ripen.

I think the founding fathers didn't have this in mind when the drafted the 2nd Amendment. Ah well, have to thin the herd somehow.

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Posted: Feb 13th 2010, 07:38 AM

I agree that a lot of people talk shiznit about guns and a lot of the time, they don't have a clue. However, I wouldn't want Walmart to put up placards, or any other firearms store for that matter.

Shooting and firearm ownership isn't meant to be just for the experienced gun-guy or gal. It's also about the inexperienced being able to exercise their right to bear arms and learn from people with more experience. We sometimes forget, we were that inexperienced gun-guy at one time. Hell, I still don't know shit from shinola about a lot of firearms...that's why I have you guys to drag a stool next to and pick your ear.

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Posted: Feb 13th 2010, 03:51 PM

That's why I don't go hunting until I master my aim with my rifles. If I could hit an apple at 100 yards, then I might think that's good enough, or not?

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Posted: Feb 13th 2010, 09:54 PM

I think that if anyone can hit an apple at 100 yards, they are good to go!

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Posted: Feb 14th 2010, 12:33 AM

20 plus something years ago, I went shooting at the Angeles Forrest outdoor range with my friend. I used my Remy 700 30-06 with some Federal ammo. Forgot which line or bullet weight. It was a windless day and the condition was perfect for long range shooting. I put a quarter on the target at 100 yards, my friend thought I would miss it, we made a bet. Well, the first shot was just right at the bottom of the quarter. The second shot hit it dead center. So I won the bet for a nice steak dinner. Now, I am much older and more tire these days from work. My eyes are not as sharp as they used to be. So, I need to practice more when the weather is cooperative.

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Posted: Feb 20th 2010, 05:41 AM

My BFAM, you got a point.

Half the fun of going into gun shops and associated places is getting to see the hardware. I retract my statement. I forget these days about what it was like when I was on the bottom of the learning curve. Thanks for bringin' it back, there's hope for you ol' wavehoppers yet!

BTW, you still sure you weren't a Marine in a past life? I think you were.

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Posted: Feb 20th 2010, 06:33 AM

I swear CJ, Marine basic must have a class on what to call Navy guys. You come up with shit I've never heard all the time.'Wavehoppers'...I'm not kidding, that's a new one on me. Of course, you know what that really means right? A 'wave' is what we used to callNavy chicks. Kind of like 'WM'. I guess I could have been a wavehopper in my younger years. Doh!

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