There are people who hunt well with .223 and have no problems with it. It is a hot argument and it boils down to shot placement.

If you are in a gunfight with a human a .22 will kill them just as dead as a .45, but you have to account for the .45 being able to do alot more damage and a higher probability if incapacitation.

If you hunt with a smaller caliber you must be better at shot placement. If you get head/neck shots, a .223 will drop a whitetail with no problem, but a larger caliber is more capable of making a heart/lung kill. Heart/lung shots are easier to make because of the larger target but the animal will still run a bit.

.243 is a fine hunting round and although the bullet is small, it packs allot of powder.

If you are hunting short ranges of 75 yards or less, a 30-30 is a great rifle. Longer than that I would suggest a .308 because the ammo is plentiful, the round is powerful.

Either way you need to practice with whatever you get. I have a 7mm mag I used to use as my primary deer rifle and I wish I hadn't got it. The recoil was more than I could comfortably handle while practicing. I could only shot 7 or 8 times per session before my shoulder was done. I did take about a dozen deer with it with no bad shots. The knockdown power in the 7mm mag is fantastic, and you can hunt elk or moose with it if the opportunity ever arises. I now hunt with a 6.5 Grendel (.264). I have already shot it more times than my 7mag and I just got it this year. I have killed one deer with it and that was a neck shot at 140yds. I am aware that I have to make more specific shots with it than I had to make with the 7mag.

Lots of choices out there.

Deer down south are friggin' dogs with antlers. Tasty, but still small. I don't think I'd go bigger than .308, or 8x57. Too much more than that, you're wasting lead and wasting meat.

Sorry for the delay. Its been a long day.. Started about 0430 this morning for me. I got up and got everything loaded, with the intent of hitting our glassing spot by 0530. Well those of you with children will appreciate this one. I finally for the one daughter who wanted to still go out of bed about 0515,, By the time she got herself ready , and a few sibling arguments that made sure #2 wasent going to go, it was 0545 or so. Our happy hunting group had been decreased by 1 due to a squabble over who was shooting which rifle.

Anyhow we made it to our glassing spot about 0620 or so. It might have been a little earlier but I cannot remember. A friend of mine had already been on a high spot well above us since well before daylight.. We got him on the radio finding out he had nothing spotted yet. So I set up and started glassing the bottoms South of where we were. I spent about 15-20 minutes glassing the immediate area as I started my search pattern. Daughter #3 was wandering around freezing And being a little girl. I have a couple of sets of binos and I gave her one so she could at least keep busy. ABout 10 minutes later I spotted a small group of deer coming in our direction, across a field about a mile or so away.

I fired up the radio and got our spotter all dialed in and a plan was concocted. The bucks were moving into a spot where neither of us would be able to see them. Our spotter was going to pack up and mover down to where I had spotted the bucks initially , And we were going to go after them. WE drove back down the road about a mile or so to hit a ridge that would take us right to the path the bucks were taking. AS we hit the ridge our spotter made it to our last glassing spot and got set up. The bucks were still out of sight to everyone, but they did not pass us , and had not moved back into a spot where our spotter could find them.

There were 4 bucks in the herd, a couple of them decent 3x3's. BUt no worries about what she would shoot at, there was a small asking for a muley in velvet at some point. but everything was game.

We moved down the ridge glassing the bottoms on both sides just in case they moved. About 3/4 of the way down the ridge I finally relocated one of the bucks down in the bottom about 100 yards from where we last seen them. But now they were bedded. I got our spotter on the radio and brought him up to speed. He was not able to see the bucks from his perch . But could see the surrounding area enough that any movement out of the area would be seen.

WE made our way down the ridge and got within 300 yards of the bucks. We sat down and got comfortable. I fired up the radio and we started figuring out how to get to them and if it was possible. Apparently the radio was a little to loud, and one of the smaller bucks got up and started moving around. Then the others also got up and started moving around also. They started moving North and after about 5 minutes made it over the hill enough that our spotter was able to see 3 of the 4.

Now up to this point the shooter had not seen a one of the bucks. , and it was looking like I was not going to be able to show her one. I was concerned they would get away before I could even get her to see them. WE ended up on the end point of the ridge, looking across a little cut to where the ridge picked up again. Our spotter ( now on our cell phones) Had picked them up when they crossed over the ridge, and now told me they had bedded down in a small cut on the North aspect of the ridge. Directly across and out of sight from where we were. Which was about 190 yards to the top of the spot they were bedded. SO we sat down and started trying to figure out if we should sit them out or if we could get around to get a shot into the cut. ABout an hour later we had all but decided the bucks were down for the day. And sitting on a hill with an 11 year old girl who was already tired and thirsty was not much of an option if she wanted a shot. SO another plan was being hatched. We got about half way through hatching this plan when I sneezed. I stifled it as best I could but was apparently loud enough to get the smallest of the buck up and moving again.

The little buck , per our spotter, was heading North and into the flats. I got up and moved to the other side of our point. It only took me a few seconds to spot the little buck as he fed on a mesquite. I got #3 up and over to where I was. We got her all set up with the tripod and as comfortable as the slope would allow.

And then started waiting again.. We had the buck at 165 yards, just not a shot at his vitals. ANd we waited some more. He fed around the mesquite a couple of times. with #3 catching and then losing him again and again in the scope. I got her to practicing pulling the trigger while she had him in the scope. This little cat and mouse game went on for about 15 minutes. WIth him dodging in and out of the mesquites feeding. FInally he made it to a spot I knew she could shoot through. WE put a round in the chamber and got set up. And he stopped with his vitals covered by a creasote. Apparently the sound of the bolt chambering was enough to get his attention. And he pegged us. We had just enough cover in front of us to keep him from blowing out, but not enough to keep him from being wary. He eyeballed us for about 5 minutes. #3 asking about every 10 seconds if she could shoot, and me telling her no as his vitals were still covered. Finally he got fed up with the game and turned around and went back into the trees.

There was a small cut in the trees just to the right of where he had hung up. I told her to get set up on that spot and get ready as I was going to stop him when he got into it. He didnt show, and didnt show. I had my glasses glued to that spot. waiting.. Then I felt a tug on my shirt.. " Dad Dad there he is can I shoot now?" Huh? Where? He wasent in the spot he was supposed to be coming out of.. I pulled my binos down, and there he was about half way up the side of the ridge..Dang it .. So I told her Yes shoot.. ABout 3 seconds later the little Win Modle 7 barked.. I heard the "thump" but also watched the dust kick up on the other side of him.. Looked high I told her get another one loaded and hit him again soon as he gives you a shot.. He had moved ( walked) about 20 yards up the hill and stopped again . Boom another shot.. I heard the thump of that one also. This time he was humped up and I knew he was hit. I told her to rack another one and get ready to shoot him again. I took my eyes off of him and helped her chamber another round. I looked back to find him wobbling and then shortly after, tipping over backward.

Our spotter told us later that the best thing in the world to hear is 2 shots a bunch of hollering.

I picked up the range finder and ranged the bush he tipped over into at 239 yards. A call to our spotter to keep his eyeballs on the deer until we were sure he wasent going to get back up. #3 now complained of her whole leg being asleep. But we finally got her upa nd got everything packed to go see her deer. A phone call to Mom was accomplished as we made our way down the hill.

As we rounded the corner and was able to look into the cut to find the other 3 deer still just lying there. After shooting all but right over the top of them, and all the whooping and hollering, they stuck tight. We now had them at 65 yards. The bothe of us talking normally and still very excited about everything. We watched as they stood and wlaked over the hill. Making the fact that we only had one of the 2 tag holders present all that much worse.

After all was said and done the girliest of my 3 girls was talking pictures of the wound channels through the heart and lungs which she had hit both of. and poking at the gut pile. She also helped skin most of it, and just a while ago was helping me butcher it.

Its been a very long day.. but to sum it up.. At 1030 she dropped her deer. 239 yards, 2 shots, the first of which got both lungs, and the second got the heart.. the 2 shots were 8" apart. Not to bad for an 11 year old on her first hunt of any kind. this was her first shot at anything. and she got it done. Then helped out throught the rest of the day. Much to the amazement of both my wife and I.


Anywhere heres the pics.









And the heart and lungs.. FOr those of you who are not comfortable with a .223 taking deer. here is the evidence. straight up. THis is a 60 grain soft point pushing about 2500fps( per my reloader, her Grand Pa) at 239 yards out of a Win Model 7 youth with a 18" barrel.