1911.COM : M1-Garand : M1-Garand : garand ammo?

Posted: Oct 7th 2007, 12:17 AM

Ive been shooting the greek stuff(hxp 68)I got from cmp and its not all that great so far.

Has anyone tried this ammo? http://www.sportsmansguide.com/cb/cb.asp?a=213903

In the description it says its stamped KA, what mfg is that?

Looked a bit online and couldnt really find any good deals except for that and the greek stuff.

Oh ya anyone have any recommendations for hunting rounds(soft point)?Cant hunt here in AZ. with fmj rounds

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Posted: Oct 7th 2007, 09:50 AM

Wal-Mart should have plenty of 30.06 SP ammo or any other sporting goods store. Its a common hunting caliber

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Posted: Oct 7th 2007, 01:40 PM

You don't own a Garand , do you ?

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Posted: Oct 7th 2007, 03:29 PM

Ya, commercial 30-06 ammo is generally a bad idea to put through a garand. Its nearly impossible to overpressure one, but very easy to overpressure the gas system and either bend the op-rod or crack the heel when it slams the bolt back. Usually recommended ammo is 150 grain or less loaded with fast powder (but not too fast as to not function the rifle). An adjustible gas nut may help the problem, and let you use commercial ammo so long as you carefully adjust it. I reload these puppies, currently doing 54.0 grain loads of hot 4350 to save some wear, they are light loads (and that is NOT a recommended powder) but that makes for a fun shooting round. I'd say get into reloading . That CMP 06 ammo is hard to beat price wise, I doubt we will ever see it in that range (.22 cents a round for some) ever again, I'd like to get a few boxes just to have around.

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Posted: Oct 8th 2007, 02:29 PM

All KA (kung pow) headstamp is corrosive but I've heard personally that it shoots rather well. I love the Greek stuff. I'm not a benchrester at all so most of my shooting is informal, standing using only a sling. I cankeep8 rds inside a six inch cirlce at 50 yds all day long with it. Unless of course I run out of ammo

From the CMP forum:

Here's a list of some lot numbers of Korean PS ammo with reported problems:

PS 2-152 (VERY BAD - DANGER - numerous reports of ruptured heads!)
PS 2-154 (VERY BAD - DANGER - multiple negative reports splits and ruptured head)
PS 2-155 (VERY BAD - DANGER - multiple negative reports splits and ruptured head)
PS 2-156 (BAD - multiple reports of serious splits)
PS 2-158 (VERY BAD - DANGER - Nasty split cases...all the way to the head of the case)
PS 2-161 (reports of leaking primers, one blown)
PS 2-165 (Bad – multiple reports of leaking primers and one report of serious split case from mid-case into head, but not through rim)

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Posted: Oct 9th 2007, 01:07 PM

hmm guess Ill stick with that greek stuff for now, thanks for the info!

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Posted: Oct 13th 2007, 10:41 PM

So, this CMP ammo - does it come on clips already?

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Posted: Oct 13th 2007, 11:13 PM

You can get it on m1 garand clips for $.26 a round or just boxed for $.23 cents a round, but ive heard the boxed have some minor corrosion issues with the glue used in the boxes. ($.18 cents a clip is pretty damn good already)

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Posted: Nov 27th 2007, 06:39 PM

I have bought cases of the Greek ammo, clips and loose, all good stuff. Yea !!! my first post here.

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Posted: Dec 20th 2007, 09:12 PM

Due to different burn rates, it is not adviseable to fire commercial ammo through a Garand. It has been done in the past with no ill effects, however.

If you really need to or want to, an adjustable gas plug will enable you to do so.

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Posted: Jun 12th 2008, 11:58 PM

yeah defenitly kudos on the greek ammo my garand eats it like candy

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Posted: Oct 7th 2008, 03:06 AM

Foxtrot was right about M1's gas system being powder sinsitive. The problem comes from burning rate, the slower powders still have too much pressure when the bullet passes the gas port and the high pressure causes too much forcefor the operating rod. however, I disagree with foxtrot on using imr 4350 powder in reloading a m-1. 4350 is too slow. the m1 was designed to use H4895 (IMR 4895 is fine) if if 4895 is sluglish you may use IMR 4064. Never use federal primers in a gas operated rifle espicaly federalmatch . they are very accruate but too soft for a gas auto. don't belive me just load 2 or more rounds in a m1 shoot it once so that a live round is feed by the rifle, then eject the live round and look at the small dent in the primer. the softer the primer the deeper the dent. deep enough and you will have a slam fire.

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Posted: Oct 7th 2008, 07:22 AM

Your 100% on the money

I don't recommend the IMR 4350 load for Garand's at all. I have a huge 20lbs lot of the stuff thats graded at a 2% faster burn and I under-load it down below published starting loads to keep the gas-port pressure in Garand specs. It makes for a very tame load, a little under 30-30 ballistics. By all means nobody should try to duplicate it (but it is Garand safe in my application)

By far IMR 4895 /H 4895 are the recommended powder and produce about the best results for the Garand. IMR 4895 is also mil-spec for it.

You are also correct on federal primers being soft - winchester primers are also a little softer than there counterparts. CCI primers are comparatively much harder to strike. The risk of slam-fire is still very very slim even while using federal/winchester primers but it never hurts to mitigate your risk. Using lighter firing pins when available (I don't know of any for the Garand) can also reduce the risk of slam-fires.

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Posted: Oct 11th 2008, 12:38 AM

Foxtrot, You seem to be very much involved in m1 reloading, this might be of interst to you. several years I blew up a m1. It slam fired out of battery. You said a slam fire is very very unlikely, I agree with you. A combination of errors stacked up in my case. First of all the m1 had been a lend lease to britian, it had a crown proof mark on it and very slight traces of yellow paint in crevesses close to the muzzle. the brits marked them with a dab of paint near the muzzle to remind you it was a different cal. But the sigificents of being a lend lease was that the firing pin was a full dia. verly early in ww2 the firing pins were lightened (like you said firing pin weight is important) by making them a halve dia. rather than a full dia. pin. Evently this rifle was never updated, thus a heaver firing pin. Next I converted it to a tanker grarand with a springfield conversion kit, this also was chambered in 308. The kit came with a larger gas port (shorter barrel) and a heaver return spring. It was a very sweet rifle. Itsome times doubled , I kept working on the trigger and even tried other triger housing groups. This was actually slam firing and would happen every 50 - 100 rds. Then it blew up.

the receiver cracked both sidesof the rear of the receiver close to where the serial number is, it did stop the bolt. or I would have lost at least a eye. the right hand locking lug was cracked and the locking lug recess was gauled. the brass was fireformed almost to the end, about an 1/8 of an inch was still 30 cal. The heavy firing pin hit the soft primer with more than normal force. sorry it took so long to tell.

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Posted: Oct 11th 2008, 04:51 AM

Wow! Thats pretty impressive, and unfortunate. Many years ago I had an m1 carbine fire mid-action - I'd hesitate to call it a slamfire though as the underlying problem was not firing pin inertia. I had just bought it (Iver Johnsen, used) and taken it to the range to test it out with factory ammo. 7 rounds went by okay, the 8th exploded mid-action, blowing my fancy-grained $200 airborne stock that I'd spent weeks refinishing almost completely in half - a wedge was blown completely out of the rear, it was split from the mag well to the front barrel band. It also blew the magazine apart, sending the floor plate, spring and follower into the ground. The bolt and receiver were unharmed, though the brass cartridge had flowered out on the breech face. I'd estimate a 1/2 inch of the brass was in the chamber when it fired. The case web was of course severed from the brass and was blown back and luckily the bolt contained it. I have to wonder what kind of rearward velocity it had.

To this day I still do not know 100% sure what exactly happened. I went right from the range back to the place I bought it from and managed to "negotiate" a brand new auto ordinance in trade. This wasn't a private party sale so I didn't know the original owner. Needless to say, I wasn't very happy (and wasn't hearing very well either).

FYI - I somehow managed to fix the stock. It's now served four separate m1 carbines and now contains my winchester. If you look at the bottom right of this page you just might see a picture of it on an AO

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Posted: Apr 30th 2009, 11:40 AM

I know they can double and out of battery at least slightly. The double on my 42 build date SA has such a rate of fire that the only clue is two cases on the ground not one. Fed LR primers.
Lighten/ slightly shorten the pin or use hard primers.
People who claim the M1 will not slam fire simply have not seen it yet.
If you have an M1 that doubles FIX it. It is likely firing at least a little out of battery and hammering the bolt and locking recesses. Not good.

BTW the M1 was designed around IMR 4895. Hodgdon's original H4895 was surplus military powder.
Dan

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Posted: Apr 30th 2009, 11:48 AM

For hunting ammo use 150-168 gr SP with mid burn rate powder like 4895, Winchester 748.
You should be able to find data on the WWW for charge weights.

Dan

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Posted: Nov 19th 2009, 11:27 AM

I recently chronoed some Remington 150 gr SP rounds. Out og my 721 at or about 3,000 fps. IN my Garand at or about 2,900 fps. Definitely DO USE COMMERCIAL AMMO IN A GARAND.

Many rounds through my two Garands with a wide range of bullets reveals 165 to 168 grain. SP or Hollow points work well las a hunting round.. Load then at or about 2650 fps. 4895 and 4064 work well.

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Posted: Nov 19th 2009, 06:40 PM

The use of commercial ammo is not recommended in the M1 Garand. With the Greek ammo gone from the CMP for the time being, reloading is the best and safest alternative. As stated above, 4895 and 4064 are the best choices.

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Posted: Jun 23rd 2010, 06:46 PM

The HXP Greek surplus M2 ball comes in either a 192 rd spam can in clips, or a 240 rd spam can in 20 rd boxes. The 192 sells for $96 plus shipping, and the 240 rd is $120 plus shipping. That figures out to $.50 a round.

The HXP is good ammo, but it is basic military M2 ball, it is NOT target ammo. If you want that level of accuracy, then buy the Hornady match loads made specifically for the M1.

DO NOT SHOOT COMMERCIAL 30-06 HUNTING AMMO IN AN UNMODIFIED M1!!! It won't blow up on you, but you will ruin your op rod, maybe on the first round or maybe several boxes down the road. Sooner or later, it WILL damage the rifle. Op rods are getting scarce, so why take the risk? If you HAVE to shoot commercial ammo, order and install a Schuester adjustable gas plug.

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Posted: Jun 23rd 2010, 06:50 PM

Slam fires can happen, but only if you have high primers. It is next to impossible to get a slam fire with military ball ammo, commercial ammo, or PROPERLY loaded handloads.

In addition, if the rifle is in proper working order, it is mechanically impossible to get a slam fire given correct ammo.

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Posted: Jul 7th 2010, 11:40 AM

I was lucky enough to pick up some of the last of the US (Lake City) ammo on the market. I went in with another guy on a 1000 round case. (I wish I'd have just gotten it all) I did that even before I'd bought my Garand. My brother picked up a Garand from CMP last year and of course I had to get one too. He has used the Greek stuff and has done well with it. He primarily got it for the extra clips, which is one thing I am looking at doing soon, so I'll be purchasing some Greek stuff in the spam cans. I'll also be reloading myself to (one reason for getting the LC ammo, for the brass).

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Posted: Jul 25th 2010, 12:30 PM

The Greek HXP is decent ammo. The brass is good for reloading; at least as good as LC or other US arsenal brass. A nice plus is that they used a three point stab crimp on the primers instead of the ring crimp we used. Some guys don't even bother to swage the pockets for the tiny little stab points. I do, but I'm picky that way.

Watch for pressure signs, though, there have been reports that some lots are loaded a bit on the hot side.

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